Irish it is quite simple actually. Either your for terrorism or against terrorism. If your against it then your fine and if your for it then you will have the red white and blue coming down hard on you. Are you for or against terrorism Irish?

Howestek sez-"If it works, perhaps hundreds of thousands are saved and the region becomes a more tranquil place. That's a good thing!"
Irish sez- "I wish it was! unfortunatly a western friendly govt is not benificial to the indigenous people of Iraq.

??? Saving thousands from slaughter and tranquility in Iraq is not a good thing? Perhaps I misunderstand your comments. Cheers.

99 GP800 w/tabs and riva plate
GP1300r w/hull reinforcement kit, 13/19, 87 mm, ppk

its nice to hear all the support for our country on here. now lets be sure to all vote the bush man back in office next november. we dont need budget cuts on defense, keep this country strong. we need to keep our service men at the forefront with the best possible equipment so they can do their job when needed and return home to their familys when mission completed. this is our only way of intimidating the crazy towel heads.

irish, if you lived in new york and the surrounding ares on 9/11/01 you would understand better. i have relatives who where in those buildings rescueing people, i saw and felt 4 f-16 fly over my head in princeton NJ going supersonic heading to NY just before the second plane hit; presumably hoping to blow it out of the sky before it hit. to this day, everytime i go into NYC and see the hole in the skyline i feel the adrenalin start to pump. now what if sadam got some nerve agent to the crazy towel heads? what if they used it in your home town in ireland? you would have wished the mighty US wiped the earth of sadam, now wouldnt you?

so yes, at the moment, you better god d@m believe its all about the US in Iraq, Afganistan and where ever else we have to go to keep the peace on this planet.

[This message was edited by HopatcongGPR on Fri January 23 2004 at 05:09 PM.]

btw, celtic, syria did offer refuge to him and his family....at least thats what the news reported.

Odd that none of them took the syrians up on that offer, choosing instead to live in a hole in the ground, unable to go outside for 5 seconds. But take the weapons anyway. :confused :

quote:

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Originally posted by HopatcongGPR:
irish, if you lived in new york and the surrounding ares on 9/11/01 you would understand better.

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Well man I wasn't there, never been there for anything else but tourism (and never again since it happened) but I think I was just as shocked by what happened as if I had been.

My wife (whom I met AFTER 9/11) was born in Israel and raised in New York and I know it's something she doesn't think about at least once a day, some girls she used to work with died that day and as a jewish terrorism matters a lot to her.

You don't need to be an American (btw what is an American exactly?) to be concerned by what happened that day, loving life and freedom is enough for me to be concerned.

I wish I had been in Paris on 9/11/01 to help two of my friends whooping a few arabs' asses for laughing, bragging and yelling "Allah Ahkbar" and burning puppet pigs wrapped in American flags in the streets as the second building was collapsing live on TV.
Oh God I would have paid a lot of money to be there.

Even though I am European I am from a very special place, I am from Normandy, born and raised 60 miles south of Omaha beach, and believe me, where I am from we love America and Americans because our grandparents saw Americans dying to free us, and we felt those attacks against New York just as bad as if it had been Paris.

Seeing Saddam like this is a huge source of joy for me, whatever his implication in 9/11 or whatever WMDs he had or not, all I know is that you guys didn't have many more reasons to come and free France 60 years ago than to come and free Iraq today, but I am pretty **** glad and gratefull you did.
11

Building :
2003 S/S triple STXR (95% completed)
2003 ltd SXR (95% completed)
2001/02 ltd XP (0% completed)

Gee just watching the news and we have captured a top dog Al Queda operative member. Where did we find him you ask? Well we found him in Iraq of all places. So there is another big f u to the anti Bush liberals who want you to believe that Al Queda and Saddam's regime in Iraq were not working together

quote:

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Originally posted by 11:

I wish I had been in Paris on 9/11/01 to help two of my friends whooping a few arabs' asses for laughing, bragging and yelling "Allah Ahkbar" and burning puppet pigs wrapped in American flags in the streets as the second building was collapsing live on TV.
Oh God I would have paid a lot of money to be there.

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That's strange. I distinctly remember you saying you were there early last year.

Danny, that proves nothing and you're clutching at straws. There are Al Queda operartives all over the world, including the USA. I guess the US government and Al queda must be working togehter eh! Better go invade Britain because I think they caught an Al quaeda guy there trying to blow up his shoes on an airplane

[This message was edited by CelticGPR on Sat January 24 2004 at 05:18 AM.]

Danny, not trying to stir up trouble with you, but just adding perspective to this subject.

I saw the same news and they also said that there was no connection with that person and any of Sadams regime. That he was there acting on his own accord fighting Americans. I have to agree with Celtic and say that this proves nothing.

If we are going to use that for justification for invasions, then why don't we invade France? France is one of the biggest supporters of terrorist in the west. It seems everytime there is an attack somewhere in the west, that the plans and attackers went through France. So I say that if the French can't handle the terrorist, why don't we take over France and control the terrorist for them?

Saddam was for sure a first class piece of garbage and the world is better off without him. We probably could have gotten rid of him in many number of ways without invading Irag. My gut feeling is that Bush had a personal agenda here and people that are no longer in his circle of power have said so.

If you truely want to stop terrorism, we are not going to do it by invading countries, but it will take the people living in that region to quit supporting them. All I see us doing now is causing more resentment towards the US from the people in the region. That is how Bin Laden evades capture, he has the support of the people in the region. Why can't we try to work improving our image and gaining the trust of the governments in the region and show that we have their best intentions in mind? rp

http://home.austin.rr.com/flyingfossil

[This message was edited by rpfossil on Sat January 24 2004 at 03:08 PM.]

Fossil, you're either a communist, a nazi or a fascist.
11

Building :
2003 S/S triple STXR (95% completed)
2003 ltd SXR (95% completed)
2001/02 ltd XP (0% completed)

Fossil, you are none of the above. Instead you are a gentleman. It is a sad reflection on an individual when they have to resort to name calling when they disagree with someone else's opinion. Probably because they have little or nothing else to counter that person's argument with. Something which I've never seen you resort to.
Cheers.

I wasn't name calling but a sad truth when an individual actually thinks invading a democratic, independant country would be a good idea.
Last people to do it were Hitler, Hiro Hito and Stalin, by thinking this you are just as lame as they ever were.
Being from a country that has been unfairly invaded by the British I thought you would realize that.
11

Building :
2003 S/S triple STXR (95% completed)
2003 ltd SXR (95% completed)
2001/02 ltd XP (0% completed)

I think you may have missed the point...

quote:

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If we are going to use that for justification for invasions, then why don't we invade France?

---

Not to speak for RP, but it sounded to me like he was trying to point out the ludicrousness of invading any country that might have a terrorist amongst it's population, not promoting it.

And yes, being from a country that was unfairly invaded by the british I am all too well aware of that.

"people no longer in his circle of power have said so".

What people would these be? Ted Kennedy?
Let's face it. The only way we improve our "image" is if we turn on Israel. Who's up for that?? Not me. On the other hand, we could liberate them from ruthless dictators and murderers and play the cards out. Allow a new government to form, help them to become stable, etc.etc then get out. Perhaps that will ingratiate us to the less radical element. Standing on the sidelines complaining and casting charges about how rotten America and it's leaders are is infuriating. Milosevic was removed by American bombs in Europe when most of the Europeans were more than content to let genocide continue. Clinton bypassed the U.N. for the most part, and did the right thing by humanity with nary a wimper from our European friends about "he didn't allow us a vote in the U.N.". However, Bush basically does the same thing and is roundly critisized and demeaned by the same bunch. You know, it's please help us in our backyard (Europe)but if you topple a despot in the middle east without our permission and free millions from tyranny , on your American dollar, that's just not good enough. Forget the contribution to humanity, where the he!! are those WMD! I just won't stand for freeing people and saving them from a brutal regime unless we have those WMD! That Bush is such a tyrant! From now on, no American leaders are allowed to have the huevos to change the status quo less it offend those content with the subjugation of a people.

99 GP800 w/tabs and riva plate
GP1300r w/hull reinforcement kit, 13/19, 87 mm, ppk

I have to jump in here!
11, you are way off base and seriously out of line! Part of the reason very few Americans do not speak out is because of their fear of a back lash. No that's not what I call freedom. Listen to other opinions and have a reasonable debate, other wise its you that will become the fascist!
I have to say that Fossils word's are so refreshing coming from the otherside of the pond. We dont normaly hear levelheaded comments about the situation ("Lets nuke the enitre middle east" etc etc)On that point isnt it funny most of the antiwar opinions are not coming from the USA. You got to ask yourself WHY? Me thinks, media integrity.
I dont like Saddam, never have and dont agree with persecution. I'm happy he is gone, but do not like how it happened and what Bush did to achieve it!David Kay, Bush's Man on the ground in Iraq has said no WMD! He was top CIA boy. So why did Bush go in, 9/11 was the smoke screen.
Irish

Irish,
No disrespect, but Americans are not afraid to speak out for fear of backlash. That has never happened. The only people claiming that are those opposed to Bush in an attempt to paint him as a fascist. It was almost hilarious to watch the democratic hopefulls rail against Bush unmercifully and then claim that he is squelching opinion. WTF? Just because the American people don't fall in line with Europe does not mean that somehow they are browbeat into submission by the alleged Bush "regime". It could be that they actually are less vociferously opposed to the war than you. By the way, I lived in Scotland for several years and can tell you that from my perspective, the BBC is no bastion of integrity.

99 GP800 w/tabs and riva plate
GP1300r w/hull reinforcement kit, 13/19, 87 mm, ppk

So "You're either with us or you're against us" is n't one of those falling into line imperatives then no?

I am not saying Bush is a fascist, I am saying Fossil is one, and that's not the first time he posts racists and/or xenophobic comments, no matter how sick he might have been and no matter how much sympathy that will draw towards him.

So to make it 100% clear, I support 100% the war against terrorism, I think France has no ***** for staying out of the fight, but trying to compare like Fossil does is basically assimilating France to Iraq and that is not acceptable.

France is a worse victim of terrorism than USA just because France already lost, bending over instead of fighting and standing up for the righteous (USA, Israel and UK) against evil (saddam, Bin Ladden and their bunches), that is a worse defeat than what the Germans (whom we kiss asses today) inflicted in 39

France lost maybe 6/700 people in the 80's and 2/300 in the 90's from terrorism and decided it wasn't worth it and clearly left the dirty job to America, to which I am thankfull for taking care of the job nobody wants.

Fossil also stated France was supporting terrorism, that is not acceptable either, maybe France is weak and easier to sneak in but by no means "supports" terrorism.
11

Building :
2003 S/S triple STXR (95% completed)
2003 ltd SXR (95% completed)
2001/02 ltd XP (0% completed)

Celtic,
That was directly referring to those states that had fascilitated terrorism. It had nothing to do with political discourse. How you could connect that to being a damper on American political thought is beyond me. So the answer to your question, if referring to American political discourse, is a resounding "no, it is not a falling in line imperative"

99 GP800 w/tabs and riva plate
GP1300r w/hull reinforcement kit, 13/19, 87 mm, ppk