What RPM'S does the stock CDI open the power valves at ?

What RPM's (valves opening) would be preferred with higher compression (140) ?

With an Advent CDI what gap should the plugs be at ? Should a colder plug be used ?

Does the carb need re-jetted with Higher compression, free flow, and "D"-plate (bubble removed) and stinger 2 (Riva curve) plug gap increased or is richening the high speed needles enough ?

Did the Advent curve get reprogrammed from last summer ?
I am trying to be careful with my mods

Thanks in advance for the info

Jim

im not an expert, only a motor head with some knowledge with what u ask....

-stock cdi pv opening - not sure, dont want to give u false info....i run 6100 pv opening with a d-plate, others run 6000 with the advent...its all in your own preference and riding style

-stock gap or just above on my setup with the advent (43 to 45) some others run up near 50...try it it may work for you. i STRONGLY recommend u run a 9 series plug with the CDI and increased comp.

-i recommend you run a restictor jet in the return line (as sold by riva), go to 120 mains and verify correct pop off (52-54psi) when running increased comp. and the advent cdi.

-the advent did not get reprogramed. they had some hardware issues last summer that have since been worked out. if you buy a used one, be sure it has been updated by advent. if it has not, advent will update it at no cost to you.

also, if you want an additional margin of safety run 94 octane fuel as sold by sunoco with the cdi and comp. mods. some will say different, let me ask you this....is the extra $3.50 per tank too much to spend to save u a possible $1000+???

monitor piston wash!

my setup for your info....
advent cdi w/stinger curve
d-plate
145 psi compression
indexed br9ev @ .045
prok f/a's
120 mains, 54psi pop off with restrictor jet
riva top loader and ride plate (slightly adjusted)
14/20 concord
ultra 94 fuel
pet 2100

yields 7100 @ 72+mph

Thank You Much Hop

I look to you Drink, LM, Fercho, Pro1, Brett, Wavernr and a few others as experts. I appreciate your help.

Jim

Spud I will have some info on the power valves later on when I get home and take allook at my Tech service manuals

Got some interesting information on a new NGK plug that is coming out apparently this year. Something about it will be "detonation sensitive" and will "foul" if deto is present. I'll try to get the "skinny" on this new plug this week and post more about it. This might be old news to someone out there......if it is, please elaborate. Sounds very interesting to me. I'll post more on this as I find more......unless someone beats me to it.

Drink,

I emailed NGK to ask them about these plugs I haven't heard back yet. I was reading a paper on plugs written by Gordon Jennings (I think thats who it was by). He mentioned that the fine electrode plugs platinum tipped would melt when the plug got to the deto temp. He didn't mention if the engine would quit but I think you would know something is wrong.

I then rechecked NGK's site to see if they had the platinum tipped plugs. It gave me back an n/a.

Hopefully they will answer my email. I will certainly post if they do.

Have you found anything ?

Thanks

Still looking......I think I'll call my source tomorrow that I heard this from. He had quite a bit of info on it.

I got a reply from NGK. This is what they wrote to me.

"If an engine is detonating the spark plug is to hot and will melt before it
will foul. If your increasing compression ratios you need to drop a heat
range."

Now I don't know how the fine electrode plugs would fit in here.

I hope you find out more.

Since electrical resistance goes up with temperature it would be great if they could make a plug that inhibits electrical conductivity giving no spark at 850°C and above.

That would be awesome! Would solve so many problems and save us all a ton of money.

br9ev's gents.... works like a charm....perfect for our setups

SPUD




I think that the snap setup would depend on which impeller you are using, remember that different impellers pruduce different peak RPM, Since I have the gas valves you would need to get some feedback from Dana or others.

The rejetting of the carb is just for peace of mind. Yes I would install t-handles and adjust the lows and highs since they are so off from their recommendations

Yes the Advent unit was reprogrammed. If in doubt contact Advent with your serial number and they will confirm it for you

[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: Fercho ]

Thanks Fercho,

For some reason I knew you would have the info. I have been talking with Brett@TSI and Greg Fisher from Advent. I am going to have 4 single pipe curves put in. One will be stock. I'll go up to about 23 degrees advanced through the danger zone on the aggresive curve the other two will be in between. I can get 108 octane at one riding area. I was telling Greg it would sure be nice if there could be a door on the GPR ignition box for quick changes on the settings. The conversation ended with me saying I would just set the ignition in my garage ahead of time.

I will be spinning a 13/19 Solas washer out for the beginner impeller. After I gain a little confidence with tuning and if the numbers look right I'll go to the 14/20. I'm a year or more behind most of you. I really appreciate the help.

Thanks

spud,

We've got a couple of gprs down here in San Diego...wanna hook up and ride??? perhaps share some tuning techniques/tips??

619 572-6600

Mr.Murph, isn't Fercho just like having your own personal knowledge base. You ask and wala. The chart verifies what I have been told and what my tach numbers say.

Valves open at 6200 rpm range and not fully open until 7050 rpm... This chart shows clearly a few things discussed here for a long time. This tells me that you should not prop your boat to run anything under 7050-7100 rpm (especially if you have a head mod)at WOT, I have suspected that people running 14/20's and turning 7000 or less at WOT are not doing there engines any favors and are not utilizing there power bad combo. I have found my best combo for top speed and acceleration is to prop to 7150-7270 range. My 13/20 was a 7400 rpm range which was great out of the hole but suffered 1-2 mph on top as compared to a 14/20 7100-7150 range and Nujet 6.5 at 7200-7270 range.

The chart also backs up my contention that the rev limiter is a more important mod to have than a PVC if you had to choose. No matter how fast the valves work, at 7400-7450 in rough water riding/racing the rev limiter is going to kick in and the PVC can not do its job as effective and will constantly be in conflict with the rev limiter. This backs up my test with a rev limiter mod only versus a PVC and stock rev limiter. The boat with the rev limiter mod in rough water absolutly walked away from the boat with just a PVC and stock RL.

I would stick to the snap 60 or 62 with your setup. Rejet the carbs mainly to help against the lean condition gremlin,lower the pop off, and allow for accel pump removal which helps fuel economy and a cleaner acceleration and access to high speed t-handle adjustor on number 3. My boat to date has run best with 150-155lbs compression valves closed. I tried 42cc domes at around 140 and lost speed and overall power. Went right back to 40cc domes.Want to try 38's with 98-100 octane just to see if there is any peak speed loss/gain

If you are not running the ignition & have stock airbox with just bubble removed then no need to touch jetting with a dplate, 140 lbs and free flow. I ran similar with 150 lbs for 50+ hours and 92 octane with no problem. Add ignition and then rejet and run 94-95 octane (if using the more aggressive single curves like Riva single) to be safe and you would be fine. With stock curve 92 will be fine. If you still use the stock airbox, that is a safe setup but you would want FA's at some point to max performance. Make sure to use prefilters and leave choke plates for extra protection against partial throttle lean issues especially for rec riding (closed course different deal)

HopatcongGPR, are you using only the BR9EV's? Have you tried the EVX's or standard ES solid tips? And what gap on those plugs? Did you notice any difference in performance when running 9's?

Advent has changed some curves slightly but that was around August last summer. You can get the stock curve, enhanced stock , Riva single or your own custom.

Brett, I am running the BR9ES Solid tips and they work fine.

Schloss & Brett

I would like to hook up and go riding. We should get a hold of Robsauto and mrwilliam. That would be cool. It will probably be another month before I get the GPR going. My wife is due anyday now I will probably need to stick around. I should be able to sneak the GP1200 out though.

I finally got the pump seal kit and was sealing the pump. I took the impeller and pump liner out so I could really get in there. I noticed the liner was starting to seperate @ 20hours. I'm still waiting for the power valves and trim tabs. I ordered a Cross Bones high speed adjuster and I ordered the Advent from Greg Fisher at Advent. I was going to order it from Brett then Greg at Advent told me it would cost me more since he was putting my custom curves in at no additional charge. Every time I think some things are starting to go together I take more parts back off. This is getting expensive. Thats why I started to do mods before the holidays.

Brett I used a feeler gauge between the impeller and pump I have .012" clearance without the washer. Do you think I should grind a little more clearance in there? I'll give you a call I think I'll get the jets, popoff springs,oil injection block off the proks and the stuffers while it is apart.If I change flame arrestors I want to go premix. Probably a head with 42cc domes too.

This has turned into quite a project.

I can see where there are a lot of casting flaws and areas where someone with the proper talent like Carl can extract some speed. I'm not skilled enough to attempt a lot of it. It comes with knowledge of wall thickness', stress in the pump, hydro dynamics and the like. Leave that to the experts. I did work my intake grate over and I am being very meticulous with the pump seal job.

I would say to anyone seal the pump and put in a 13/19 before you ever go to the water. I thought 20 hours wouldn't hurt anything.

Brett this Buckshots are kicking my a$$!!!

I cant seemt to have a clean bottom with the jetting they sent me. I re-adjusted the pop-off from 17 to 24 (2.0 n/s with 115 gram spring). I may even need to rejet the lows to 117.5 or 120.

Can you tell me which jetting you ran with your Buckshots???

Spud, Advent does not charge me extra to put customer requested curves in. They have done it many times and should. Greg is going to get a call next week.

What did you torque the impeller to? If you don't think it will tighten any further then you should be ok. On the other hand, if it is easy for you to remove some material off the impeller then it probably wouldn't hurt.


Go Faster, I need your phone number!!! My email has been acting up lately.

Fercho, I never used the Buckshots. I just resold a set from Chris Bullock to Jarrett a while back. What exactly are your symtoms? I will be trying some BN 44's with a different manifold and linkage when I get the chance. If all goes well I will be selling carb packages for endurance and rec riding (44's) and closed course setup's with 46's. I suspect the 46's will lose some peak rpm but have better acceleration.

2 turns out on the lows (115 Pilots). I saw a posting from leemac before where he was using the 120 pilots 130 mains.

My highs are out at 1 turn. I may need to rejet to 120-122.5 or 125 on the lows. It could be the weak carb signal that this ones have. I will try the Jetinetics tomorrow and will seee wha it does.

Great Idea to try the SBN. Get adaptors for your Jetinetics and try them with the SBN they have a recommendation for that setup also.

Brett,

I'm having the stock curve put in the ignition. Its Yam-83. I'm also having Yam-59, Yam-84 and I believe Yam-94.

After talking with Greg the curves were stock (which he couldn't figure out why the H*ll I would want) enhanced stock, and two stinger curves. I tried to explain I wanted a setting that was safe for areas where I wasn't sure what quality the gas was (I would like to go to Powell this summer). He was telling me I was wasting my money to buy that cdi and use a stock setting. He said all the curves were tested on dyno's with egt's and all deemed safe with the best results. I told him that maybe I would use the stock setting as much as I would have used the two triple curves (which would have been never) and to put it in there. So the Advent should be here next week.

I'm sending my pump liner to you for the Skat upgrade. I think I may need some more time to go with the rest Proks, head, jets etc. My wife is getting ready to kill me as it is. I think I spent atleast 6 hours sealing the pump and I still have a little more work to do on it. That 5200 just doesn't want to cure in the winter time.

I'll get the pump liner in the mail Monday.

Thanks for all the help.

Jim